Scaling Short-Stay Living with Laurenz Schwarzhappel (Global Living Apartments)

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome back to Pell Talk Sessions with your host, Jessica Gilliam. In today's episode, Jessica is joined by Lawrence Schwarzhoppel, co-founder and co-CEO of Global Living Apartments. They'll discuss how global living is achieving consistently high occupancy across Germany by focusing on families and group travelers, while smaller cities are outperforming expectations, and how converting commercial real estate is unlocking new short stay supply in a highly regulated market. Conversation will also explore how AI-driven automation is transforming operations, saving hundreds of hours, reshaping guest communication, and what the rise of AI-led booking means for niche positioning in the future of property management.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Lorenz, thank you so much for joining me for a conversation on Pillow Talk Sessions. I'm looking forward to speaking with you and going into some depth about a few topics. But firstly, and actually I want to give an overview of global living apartments. You are based, or you originally were based in Berlin, and now you operate across about nine cities in Germany. And I believe you have about 150 units that are under operation and management as well. But my first question for you is is that your background's a little bit different? So you don't come from hospitality. I believe you come from legal tech, and your co-founders come from different part different industries. First question is what is it about hospitality that attracted you guys? Second part of that is what do you bring that is different to hospitality in your thinking as you're running your operations?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah, uh Jessica, thank you for having me on the podcast. Um, I would say, yeah, we we are coming also, we're three founder um which uh yeah, found Global Living 2022, and we're coming from different backgrounds from Austria originally, so uh moved to Berlin like 2021. Um, and uh we met together all in the same legal tech firm as you mentioned. And we're coming from a bit this startup environment. Uh, also both of my uh co-founders uh were before in startups or even founded uh companies before. Means basically we do have a bit of background in founding a company. We don't have any, or we had we hadn't any background in the hospitality industry, and which leads us to think about together in which industry is the most need of digitalization and where can we bring our thinking of starting a new company in a before case legal tech environment and even the tech part, where can we do this pretty good? And we saw in that case that the hospitality industry is a pretty pretty basic with not that much technology um in it, because uh when, for example, we uh we uh got together in um Stuttgart, uh city in Germany, and I came to the front desk, and the front desk gave me a sheet where I have to fill out it by myself with hand. They took it, then they type it in in their computer, and that's pretty not the state of the art we would like to operate. And there we saw, okay, there is a need in this segment how we operate on the one hand our own houses, but also help other providers, help other hosts to even do the digital trend which is now occurring, of course. Yeah, that's that's where we come from. That's where we are now, and that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

So I guess from your own experience as a guest, but also just by looking at the industry, you know, you really saw that opportunity to do something different and disrupt and change. What just out of curiosity, what other industries were you also looking at as you were deciding to do a startup together?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah, we we had a few possibilities, but not that much because we said, okay, we would like to focus on two, three other opportunities. Uh, one was also in the commercial business, to doing shipping stuff, but this wasn't as good as the whole tele because also direct after COVID, um, and with all the immense topics which we had in other industries, we thought it's the best time to go into the hospitality segment, even with other competitors which went out of the market because of COVID. And yeah, that there was, I think, a really perfect time to do so.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

So it was 2021 that you launched, which was still quite heady to COVID days, wasn't it? It wasn't like the first year of the pandemic when we were all under lockdown, but that second year was a real shift in terms of particularly in short stay accommodation, because there was a real sort of urge and growth in the demand for short stays, purely over hotels, and especially in domestic markets and things like that, because some countries we still couldn't quite travel outside of our own country. So it was a real sort of golden time that 2021 in the industry. But I you guys operate service departments, is that correct? So, sort of more in the kind of the service departments. So, what was it about that particular asset class that was attractive to you?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yeah. I think the group we are focusing on and the people which stays with us are mostly like families or even groups. So we are not providing, or we're providing a very less amount of our rooms are even just for two people. So it's uh under under 10% of our rooms are just for two people. So what we are doing is we saw, and that's what we are doing today too, is uh we saw the need in the guest segment families because we we see that over many more generations, like grandchildren, the parents, and even the grandparents, they are traveling together. And that's what's not a typical hotel, is like to come together in one room or even in one apartment to have my own breakfast, for example, then go out and show and explore the city, and then come back for the um like evening or lunch and say, okay, we are coming together as family. And that's what we in most of our apartments um are providing. And this group of guests we try to address and we do address is a very for us good opportunity in a niche of segment.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

So it's quite refreshing because often with service departments it will be obviously the business travelers, but then also a lot of talk of digital nomads and that expanding that leisure blew. But I suppose also that's you know, digital nomads bring their families with them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

And and I I did mention to you in the the pre-call that we did that I am looking to book a place for my family in Berlin, and we are just about to book one of your apartments, so I'm very much looking forward to trying one out. I think though if we go back to the opportunity that you saw in the sector, so there's that digitalization piece, but then there's also the type of guest and and offering something to them. Yeah. But if we go back to the digitalization piece, is it like where do you see the biggest opportunity in terms of that? Is it from the guest experience side or is it the operational side or both? Like, and so that I guess would be the first question. Then I've got a follow-up I'd love to ask after that.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I think both sides are very attractive because as you see, and if you go like in the Berlin market, and if you s search for two people for a room, then you get 1,200 rooms. But if you go then bigger in headcounts, then you have just a few of that, like 20-30% maybe, and the supply does not fit the demand of guests because we have uh uh occupancy rate around the year, approximately at 92%, which sees the exact opposite of many hotels, they achieving like 60, 65%, maybe in Berlin a little higher, but um we're having across all of our nine cities in Germany over 90% um occupancy rate. And that's what we see in uh supply and demand demand, and then we are doing it very much more in a digital way so that we address also young people, but also the older generation, which is a little bit curious and say, okay, I would like to try that out because it's new maybe for them. And yeah, the these both sides are very, very much interesting for us.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

So I'd say with a 91% occupancy rate, it tells me I better book quick for the for the apartment.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Absolutely, yes. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

But can we talk about the German market? Because I've been in the short stay in the hotel space for for a number of years, and and the last couple of years there's a lot of excitement around not just Germany, but the whole of the DAC region as being a very quite fast-growing short stay market. So give give us all, if if you don't mind, an overview of the German market and what's kind of going on there that's making it so interesting to see what's kind of happening.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah, I'm sure. I think there are two major topics we can address in Germany. So on the one hand, you have the major market like Berlin, like Munich, um like Hamburg, but you do have, and that's what we are seeing today with our openings of our new houses, is that also markets like with smaller cities like Jena, Jena is a small city in Germany, or Chemnitz, we are opening a house uh next month uh in Chemnitz. We see that there is a lot of demand, and we didn't expect, for example, uh we opened a new house in Jena in August uh 2025, so last year, last six months, and we we had an of course financial plan how it should look like, but it was tremendously more on um demand, which we didn't expect at all from a small city, because you do have a lot of industry in such small cities too, like in Yena, you have uh Yen Optics, which is a um uh a big company, which is also listed uh in the in the um in the uh public market. There you have the business traveler as you already mentioned, but you do have also, and that's the second part which we offer is you have the business traveler, they are traveling with their kids, with the family because they can so. Um and that I think this makes the German market really interesting for us to see that there's not just Berlin or Munich, which has a really high occupancy rate, because also in Jena we have uh over 90% occupancy rate the last six months. Yeah, that that makes it really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

So the demand is there and you're helping with the supply side.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yeah, bringing it in. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

I want to talk about where you're getting the supply in a minute, but before I get to that, is there any like what's happening regulation-wise in Germany? Is there, you know, the traditional Airbnb of the single-family homes? Is that like how does that kind of market compare to what you're doing with the more, you know, multi-unit properties?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

So absolutely. So you you have a very strict rules in such big cities like Berlin, uh, Munich, and so on. So you are not able to use a classic flat, which you can use privately also for Airbnb. And I think that's really that's really good because then you take out of the really strict market, which is in Berlin, not even that good, and Munich also not, um, you have the private market. So, but you have to separate that completely because what we are doing is we are converting commercial real estate basically out of office spaces, out of other commercial real estate estate, which you're not able uh to use as private living areas because we are stricted in that we are not allowed to um rent them out more than six months. So basically, we're even not allowed to do so. And the rules are very, very strict. So you have to all fire rules and you you you you know um what you have to do before you get the permission to open a new house. It's a very long process, you have to deal with very much loss, but it's good to do so, and also that you don't can just convert a private flat in a house to any Airbnb to gain and own money, so that's not the the deal in that case, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

So the commercial assets that you're using, I guess it's like offices. Would it be old retail as well that you're using? Like are you being quite creative around what kind of buildings that you might then be converting into rentals?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah. So we did quite a lot in the last two or three years because uh we also uh did it with um retail market because it wasn't able. This was a flat in Berlin for 400 square meters. Um, and we we converted them into six um into six rental apartments in the basement. So basically it wasn't able to rent out. One flat we converted from office space, which we're not able to uh rent out, and even other it doesn't matter for us what type of what type of property it is currently because everything goes out and everything goes new in, like in in Chemnitz, the other small city we're opening the next one, two months. We we had a dance floor, for example, in the first floor, everything out, everything new in. But it was vacant for the last one and a half years, and the owner wasn't able to rent it out in the public market, and then we can say, okay, hey, this is uh this is our concept, this is what we can offer, and then also landlords and investors are willing to invest in the property because now we're renting this for the next 10 or 15 years, and that then they are fine with the investment before, and we can bring life in this building.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

So you've turned a dance floor into a rental, into a few correct. That's great. Yeah. But just to let me just make sure I'm really clear on that, is that though these commercial buildings, when they're turned into rentals, they cannot be rented as long term. Yes, that's correct.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Whatever the regulations is for that, but they can be for short stays.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah. Yeah. So because you're not able to do it privately. So you can do it commercially, but then you have a normally a strict rule in in the property that you don't have to, you're not allowed to um lend it more than six months, for example, because there are other rules like you have to do a different uh light concept, because then more space of light than in a two-day stay has to be there. And there are other rules you have to deal with in the private space, then you have to do it. You um doing a normal hotel concept in that case.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

So there's not maybe necessarily windows in all of the units.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

They are, but uh they have different, for example, sizes in the private spot. You have to have like specific uh light concept where the windows have specifically um big, but you don't have to do that, for example, in the commercial real estate where you just stay for one, two or three days. So there are different uh things, but we don't have rooms without uh even windows, that's that's not our case. But they don't have to be just another or a different rule which we have to follow.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Yeah, and and it's it's it's helping the asset owners make use of their properties in a different way. But just back to the no windows, we have actually had on an episode two guests that have separately talked about moment, which is in Berlin as well, where they are actually trialing windowless rooms to great effect.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah, you can see, and that's what we are also facing day by day, is that people would like to travel a lot. So that's what they would like to, but sometimes they're not able to afford it. And what we are also doing, and this is a similar concept to that, is that we're trying to reduce the the um ADR per guest even to the lowest we can, so that they say, okay, we're staying maybe in a property which is or in a room which is I don't know 20, 25 um square meter, but we are dealing with it that we are staying with four people. So not a normal hotel would deal with that, but we're doing it, and that's what the guest um asks for, because then they can even divide 100-150 euros per day or per night into four people, and then it makes it more affordable for them to travel more than particularly.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

It is interesting, isn't it? Because as long as you've got a guest in mind, a customer segment in mind, whatever your ideal customer segment is, then you make sure what you're offering goes to that. Not everyone wants or can be the luxury end and the, you know, that side. It's there's a huge basis. And it's actually again really refreshing to speak to an operator that's not looking for the luxury kind of as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Just a quick pause in today's conversation. This episode of Pillow Talk Sessions is brought to you by Abode Worldwide, the strategic communications and public relations agency partnering with ambitious hospitality tech brands to build brand authority and create category leaders. From thought leadership to global media relations, Abode helps the companies transforming how we stay, operate, and experience hospitality to tell their story with impact. If you're a tech company shaping the next era of hospitality, learn more at abodeworldwide.com. All right, let's get back to the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

So I want to talk to you about another topic. And we have had in our last episode, we had Uli Pilau, who is one of the co-founders and the CEO of Apileo, and he talked to us about how in in parts of Europe, and one of the examples was Germany, where regulations for lorry drivers, truck drivers for the rest of the world, lorry drivers for us parits, truck drivers for everybody else, how they can no longer just sleep in their cabins of their trucks anymore. So they have to actually stay and overnight somewhere. So there's all these lodging options springing up on the highways, motorways of Germany in order to kind of facilitate this. So that's an example of new kinds of lodging that fits really well with a sort of autonomous hospitality model where it's very much digitalized. You know, you don't want loads of staff there, you just, you know, need to just in, out the basics kind of thing. But then there are other types of lodging, might be cabin, you know, quite high-end cabins in the woods that really fit.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

We're seeing, and we've seen we've been probably, I guess, since COVID, seeing so much more variety of what hospitality and lodging is. We're seeing the convergence with the living sectors, we're seeing hotels kind of expanding in different ways. How do you sort of see that, like those opportunities where there's maybe you know, and again, one of them is what you've talked about, sort of the exp extended family stays, the sort of the making sure that rooms fit many people or or lots of different people. You're also looking at commercial real estate in a in a creative way. Anything else that you think that you're interested in or that you can see happening in the market?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah, I think that's that's really interesting what you were speaking about. Um, because if you look 10 years back in the hospitality industry, there weren't no of these like concepts where you, I don't know, on the truck driver where you can just sleep in a um container, for example, but which is very, very luxury often in in that case for a container. I think today, and that's what we are also thinking about, is you don't have, and we see that for other specific uh property owners too, that normally they in bigger buildings they would like to rent out the whole buildings. But what we are doing is we don't need in most cases the whole building. So we say, okay, we take floor number two and floor number four because they didn't rent out in the office market, for example, pretty well. But it doesn't matter for us. So I think hospitality concepts fit in each property because you always have a certain amount of guests who are looking for this specific type of property, as you mentioned. I don't know, in in uh certain areas or even in backyards where you can sleep in the trees or something like that. And I think for all of these concepts, there will be supply and demand. And I think this is new for the hospitality industry because the way how we sleep in such properties are in so many different ways, not just I into a hotel if I go on travel or even not. I think that that's that's the really major part that there's so many concepts. Um all of them are working.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

One of the topics that we talk about on this podcast and that I'm very interested in is the concept of tech enabled hospitality. You know I recently wrote a book about tech enabled hospitality where I spoke to lots of operators around the globe around what that kind of means and and how does it sort of um play out in in operations but how does how will it and guest experience as well. But in terms of so so with you with you and I believe you've got 160 units and I think you've told me you've got three co-founders and you've got two staff running. So there's five who are kind of running it. So it's a lean operations that you have and it's not only that but you're in cities that are you know miles and miles apart from each other. Yeah absolutely how do you look at your how and especially as coming in not from a hospitality background but coming in from you know a totally different market.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

How have you looked at your tech stack and developed your your tech stack to make it as efficient as possible for you to operate but then also for your guests to experience yeah I think uh what what what makes it really interesting for us is how is automation be defined because most of the people who are long in the hotel industry for example just define automation in I can send an email or even uh invoice to the guest via email and that's what most of the part uh of the hotel industry are looking at automation or even using automation and as you mentioned we are coming from a complete different side or out of the tech um industry and we are looking on each thing we have to do before we think about do we need someone for a specific um task is can we do this with an automation or can we do this without having another operations employee or something like that. So and that works pretty well because then we implement before so tech first is I would say the the the name for that. And what we are doing and we're building everything around you you mentioned Apolio we are using Apolio out of the scenario that we need an open API to build around the heart which is Apolio all of our tech stack. And this is on the one hand um of course the complete AI segment I've I've um just recently got the numbers we had in the last year over 2000 messages from and to guests which uh never talk to us that's just the AI which was approximately over 800 to 900 hours which we saved for employees not to handle. And what we are facing is that this is not even lower the guest satisfaction it's the opposite around it highest the guest satisfaction because they get messages from us before they even ask for the question or when they get asked they even get it on demand. Then and that's the major part where really a satisfaction appears is when they do have a problem we can solve this within minutes or even a few hours so um because we're just getting five to ten percent of all guest messages really to a personal staff employee. And that makes it really really good because then they can deal with the guests emotionally if there is any problem or even physically if we do have I don't know there's uh not the best cleaning maybe that can appear so but then we can deal with the guests we can help them very quickly and not have to deal with where can we park or are there towels in the room or something like that. Can I check in early? So the questions which get asked day by day every day we don't have to answer them. So having said that we most of our guests we do not have any contact with them in a positive way because they all they just need us in the type of emergency or even a complaint they do have which is hopefully not uh as much as the the messages and building this around over a polio in our case um it's really amazing because also our cleaning teams uh operate completely digital we we have a software where they can take a photo of something which is broken we get a notification we can handle this with um our maintenance guy on site when the cleaning team is ready and even it is 10 o'clock in the morning or 1 pm the guest gets directly a WhatsApp message hey your room is already done they don't have to ask for hey is my room already done can I enter no we are proactively send them messages to say hey now your room is ready and that's what makes for us real guest satisfaction because they love it that they get an answer directly or even room is ready at 12 pm let's go we can get in so and yeah that that's uh our tag stack and of course we're doing all of the stuff automatically and just dealing with the guests when when they have an issue or even need help by anything else which they I cannot handle. So this both together is an amazing amount we can lower our costs tremendously and give this ADR uh advantage to our guests. So and that's why of course is our ADR and occupancy rate in that that region.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

In hospitality we have a sort of there's an argument going on or or there's a conversation that's been going on for a while and it's like okay AI is great for certain things but the human touch will still be really important and the hospitality and the human touch I think it that is a slightly simplified argument and you said something that is is really interesting. And if you think about hospitality and you think about what good service is it's about meeting expectations exceeding expectations and anticipating needs. And everything that you said there were those two things you know anticipating the needs and also meeting and exceeding expectations without a single human in the loop there. And that I think is what what where we're going with hospitality is that yes of course we can still keep saying yes we'll have humans in for for certain parts of it yes yes yes but actually do we need you know do we really need it because we can still we can provide maybe well and and you're saying a better guest experience by using automation and technology to get that that meeting needs um anticipating needs meeting expectations bit.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah absol absolutely and I think that the perfect example is when we are traveling all of us by our own and we are not going into a service department we see for example I'm privately uh in in any time I'm able to um I'm in Las Vegas because I love the city there but you have to stay in line for an hour to get just your key because there's so many rooms.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

I was in Las Vegas in October and honestly it wasn't just one front desk I had to go to I had to go to one front desk then another one like nuts. Yeah yeah I can't believe you like Las Vegas though.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Yeah yeah but that that's that's not necessary if a guest needs help they try to get help on the phone by personal assistant. Perfect but I don't have to wait in line for an hour or two to even get my key code for something which I can easily do by myself because it doesn't matter for me to I don't know fill out for two minutes. They don't have time even for me. And that's what we are changing in that case we have time for our guests because we put out everything which is not necessary to get answered by human interaction. So and that's why we can take time for our guests and that's this this is where guest satisfaction appears.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

It is Las Vegas does always shock me because on one level it's so futuristic but then it's so backwards you know when it does come to the experience as well. Yeah there's a real sort of you know there's a paradox there a duality in Las Vegas for sure. Lorenz just as we wrap up what I would love to to hear from you is what excites you if you're thinking about the next five years in this industry what is it that is really exciting you about what might happen in the next five years or so?

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah that's a pretty good question because we're thinking about this a lot regarding also how guests will book the apartment I think the type of how we travel will change a little bit also over the three years but I think that the the way we book the apartments and hotels this may change a lot because people are today talking with ChatGPT and all other AIs about their travel and vacations and the question will be where will we book in the next years and how will we decide as individuals where I book or do I give this everything to an AI and say hey I would like to go to for example Las Vegas the next two weeks this is my budget I would like to have I don't know a front desk or not I would like to have a gym or not and then AI is doing the rest for me. So and this could appear and then the question would be how can we as provider go to that guest and say hey we are the perfect fit for you is it then just by using AI and they are just filtering out and I think this will be the most important question. And I recently talked to uh booking.com for example and they do have an integration currently with uh the first one I think with with uh chat gbt for example when you're using as well one one other one I did notice yesterday but booking.com definitely does yeah and you just type in to your phone I would like to go there and then they book directly the apartment for you I think that there's the way we go I think also that not even people will be able to wait for answers of a reception that long when they ask something that would like to like on Amazon they would like to get immediately answers and this is also what not even is a tremendous shift but I think it's will be very much important because this is what most of the hotels has to do that they get way much more in the automation segment.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

So this shift of how consumers research and buy products whether it's a hotel stay, a service department stay or it's a pair of trainers is like so seismic what how this is going to change. And and my view is that the hospitality industry is a bit is in part still a bit of sleep to this what is both a huge risk but also challenge. And how are you making sure that at Global living apartments you're ready for this shift because it's it's most definitely coming and either you're asleep at the wheel or you're really kind of leaning into it.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Yeah I think and this this will be the the major part which we have to deal with is how AI will decide on which apartment fits best for the guest. So and currently I can't answer the question because we don't know it how they really decide to that because of I don't know how I searched on Google or what I booked recently the last uh years and and days. I think the most important part will be everything which I can do for the guest like do I have such advantages for the guest like do I have a gym on site for example do I have certain areas where the guest can deal with do so what can I offer to the guest that for example the AI says okay you are the best fit for his needs. I think giving the guest all we need and focus on specific guest groups which you will address and be the best in this niche will of course think will be the competitive advantage you can bring. So basically if you address all you don't address no one so that's uh in the marketing segment often said and I think that's that's really also when booking over AI you have to address a specific niche and then give all what you have for them.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

As the Americans say there's riches in niches isn't there so Lawrence thank you so much for coming on the podcast I've really enjoyed this conversation and and you know hearing your thoughts on things and and getting sort of deeper in some of the topics with you. What for just to sort of bring us out of of the podcast and we will put all your contact details in the show notes so that everyone can kind of check you out, check your company out as well but what is it that you're most excited about for you and your company over the next year?

SPEAKER_00 36:01

I think what we would like to do is on the one hand own our own properties in that case but on the other hand and that's what we saw over the last month and years that so much smaller or mid-size hotel owners or short-term rentals owners are struggling with all of that stuff how I can handle the guests how I can fix all those problems by my own and what we are trying to do and uh we did um recently a big project which we are now launch in two months in Passau with a big investment for what we are trying to do is we would like to help all of them by driving their property. So we'd like to take over more property management in that case and on the other hand we are driving our own properties but that's what we are focusing on for 2026 is that we try to get property owners which are struggling maybe or even don't want to hustle every day that we can help them. This over property management you had recently uh guest ready for example as as uh guest and I think that they're doing this pretty well in that segment and we would like to offer our service in a very similar segment to because the need is really really high I think and most of the generation said uh they're driving cool properties but maybe they need help in that case and that's what we would like to provide. Um yeah that's that's basically what I think which will be having very much impact on the industry but also on our company.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Brilliant Lorenz thank you so much and thank you for being on thank you Jessica for your time.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

And that wraps it up for today's episode of Pillotalk Sessions with Jessica Gillingham. Thanks so much for listening and if you'd like to stay connected and never miss a conversation head over to Pillotalksessions.com to subscribe you can also follow us on LinkedIn for more insights and interviews with leaders shaping the future of hotels, short term rentals and tech enabled hospitality. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time on Pillotalk Sessions